108 vs 110 lobe separation

So, sit tight back and explore. The extra cubic inches will smooth out a rough idle in a 327. However, these rules are not absolute. Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. Do you know what the best lobe separation angle for your car engine is? Also present during testing was a set of 1 7/8-inch Kooks headers, Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and F-body oil pan. This was science at work, and with data in tow, it was time to crunch the numbers and find out what was going on. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. cam for torque.110 or 112 LSA????? - Team Camaro Tech The tightest LSA (101) was worth 21.5 lb-ft of torque and a much broader powerbandat the cost of much lower idle vacuum, which would make it more temperamental in a street car. It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. Topping the short-block was a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. So, choose the perfect lobe separation angle for your engine, complying with the requirements of your needs. But, after comparing these two LSA based on a few mechanical aspects, such as maximum Torque, RPM, powerband, oil consumption, and many more, you will find the 106 LSA with better performance output. With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. I am trying to pick out a hydraulic roller cam for my 351W with AFR 185s. If the intake valve opens too early, it will push the new charge into the intake manifold. Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). Well, it is quite a natural event that you may not find the lope separation angle mentioned at the engine body. Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. 05 To ensure our stroker combo had sufficient airflow, we installed a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC-ported LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. To further minimize any dyno variations, the engine's oil and water temperatures were kept the same for each pull. The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes. However, it is fixable. There are General guidelines about the effects of LSA but it should not be the deciding factor in choosing a cam. Selecting a camshaft for a given engines purpose usually involves a compromise between low- or high-end power options, and the lobe separation angle (LSA) is one of those factors where engine builders have to make a choice between those priorities. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. 108 vs 112 lobe seperation - Shoptalkforums.com It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. 106 LSA: The scale of efficient compression rises at 106 LSA. LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 - YouTube The 108 LSA offered the lowest idle vacuum of the three (down 4 inches). Its the shifting problem again with your Chevy! . by Paul H Tue May 13, 2003 1:24 pm, Post Moreover, a user from the Chevelle forum said. ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. My engine shop builds all kinds of hot rod motors, and they told me that because I am running a 4 speed manual, I will better be able to take advantage of the 108 LSA. Wide LSA cams are also applicable in forced-induction applications where less exhaust overlap is required. by xstfudonniex Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:21 pm, Post On the cranking compression test, Brul recorded 175 psi, a 10-psi drop from the outgoing 101 cam. Since we were only changing the lobe separation angle, we had to make sure every variable (air/fuel, timing, water, air, and oil temps) was identical during testing. Lobe Separation Angle Explained and How it Affects Horsepower - MotorTrend The introduction of Lunati'snew Bootleggerhydraulic series - with its wicked 108-degree lobe-separation angle, fast opening profile and plenty of area under the lift curve - will serve only to fuel the flames on this heated bench-racing topic. by bigjoe1 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm, Post 108 vs. 110 lobe separation angle?? - Vintage Mustang Forums 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. As usual, Marc (aka Master) is correct. LSA is the distance from the centerline of the intake lobe to the centerline of exhaust lobe. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. Thats just the way the customer wants to roll, and engine builders find its easy to deliver such a powerplant. Camshafts Demystified - CarTechBooks Looking at 108vs. 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. 110 LSA: But here, quite surprisingly, you have to face the reduction of the EGR effect due to the 110 LSA. Anybody here run a 108 LSA? Icao Annex 10 Aeronauticaltelecommunicationsvolumeiv-Surveillanc The 112-degree cam produced peak numbers of 567 hp at 6,200 rpm and 540 lb-ft of torque while pumping out 511 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. Say you have a cam ground on a 115 and the other on a 110. But, you may find it quite shocking that the piston-to-valve clearances decreasing rate raises the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. But it is a piece of good news for your engine. Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. Another difference between the two involves the power curve. It a 355. thanks in advance. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. Usually, this separation angle ranges from 95-degree to 120-degree. When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. its got a 3.73 posi and the Stock 4 speed with a very low 3.42 1st gear. I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two . but less of it at the same time. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. 106 LSA: There is an increasing chance of engine knock at the 106 lobe separation angle. A forum community dedicated to vintage Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. That is why 106 LSA consumes less oil. Lobe sepsration is an advanced description for overlap.If you take a cam on a 112,and grind it on a 108,you add more overlap,the time the valves are both open.Narrower lobe centers mean more low end and midrange torque,along with a peakier powerband,and a slightly rougher idle.Tradeoffs are sensitivity to octane ratings,total timing, and air fuel ratio.A lot to swallow I know,hope this helps you. too much for the street? I probably would have gone with 3.55 gears had I knows better.. Do you like to go fast? 108* or narrower lobe separation angle (LSA) is "Narrow" and 114* or wider (up to 117* or 120* for stock cams) is "Wide" , with 110 to 112* being the "normal" hot-rod cam. O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. I had an XE 274 in it. Lobe Separation Angle. - 332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum Performance Distributors Keeps The Spark Alive With SOS, A New Diesel Piston That Increases Power And Reduces, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop, Melling Offers New Timing Kits for Ford 4.6L and 5.4L SOHC, Reborn Retro Blower Packs Positive-Displacement Power For Fox, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing Lb-In Torque, Why You Should NOT Emissions Delete Your Diesel, Can A Cold Air Intake Really Help Your Trucks, Ask The Expert: We Want Your Questions For Canton Racing, The Answers: DeatschWerks Responses To Your Fuel System, SEMA 2022: GEARWRENCH Leveled Up With Distinct Quality Hand, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing AN Wrench, HOLY SHIP! Again, these are general bits of conventional wisdom. The custom cams we selected all featured 0.624-inch lift (both intake and exhaust) and a 232/242-degree duration split. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. Now here is where it gets tricky. On engines equipped with independent intake and exhaust cams, the LSA is adjustable. It also depends on displacement, some guys will run a bigger cam and widen the LCA to give a better idle but in my opinion it kills power. Lobe separation angles, he continues, are influenced by the camshaft grind. In the 106 LSA, the engine can reach the maximum torque, making the driving more efficient and saving energy. Camshafts with a substantial overlapping tendency should not be used in vehicles driven on public streets. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. Lunati's New Bootlegger Camshaft Series Has Strong Race - Dragzine Going from a 110 to 112 lobe separtaion - Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. A cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110 lobe center. Post So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. Need some Cam Advice! | Chevy Tri Five Forum It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. not exactly true, Ive seen custom grinds that are on 108 lca, smooth idle, high vacuum an even able to run efi, usually on an off the shelf cam it is true. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. I believe you have got the idea of what you were seeking. i have a 4 bolt 351C, stock bore, 10.5 cr with 351C Boss heads ,boss crank and rods. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. i think a little more torque will be good for my car.With the XE274 it was a little slugish until around 3000 rpms. However, in application, there is a lot more to consider. We do not stock profiles with 109 or 114 lobe centers. Known as "The Gladiator" around Westech Performance, this Dart SHP blockbased, 370ci, small-block Chevy has made thousands of dyno pulls testing all manner of heads, intakes, cams, and every other crazy thing us magazine folk have coerced Westech's Steve Brul to bolt to it. The 110o will make more power overall. A cam 112LSA with 4 degrees advance puts the intake centerline at 108 degrees. turbo camshafts lobe centers and lobe separation dur. I personally prefer to sacrifice the small amount more power for better idle quality. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. 108 vs 112 LSA | Team Camaro Tech Part Number: HRS-CL120325-08. Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. JavaScript is disabled. But it also has a lot of lobe separation. A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. Mailbag: Camshaft Lobe Separation, Nitrous Oxide & How They Relate Frankly cams with a 108-114 lca unless in the perfect combo you won't usually see more than 15hp and you won't really feel the difference except for either a peaky or broad power band. Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. Save Share. so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. Comparison Table Between 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle. As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. 110 LSA: On the contrary, if you look at the powerband at 110 LSA, the powerband is comparatively broader. This causes the engine's street manners and tuning to become fickle. 108 versus 110 will drive the power band down. Camshaft lobe separation angle: what does it mean? | Moore Good Ink Mistakes that weaken a supercharger's performance Only once the intake valve has closed can compression begin to build. For your convenience, I am providing a comparison table to give you an overall idea about the comparison. With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. Consequently, decreased torque rate often leads to more energy consumption. It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. It provides a spark plug with the high voltage needed for combustion. Given that nitrous works best in the mid- to upper-rpm range, nitrous-powered engines need a wider lobe separation, like 112 . It also depends on what the vehicle will be used for and if economy and vacuum are important. Idle quality was rough and the vacuum gauge showed only 9.8 in-Hg (inches of mercury). [img]http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/downsideup09/DSCF2616-1.jpg[/img], [img]http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs139.snc1/5928_111214857139_110806152139_2127222_6826389_n.jpg[/img]. Simply put, the lobe separation angle (LSA) is a measurement of how the intake and exhaust lobes are phased with each other. Changing the lobe separation angle changes the amount of overlap that exists during the time the intake and exhaust valves are both open, echoes Doug Patton of Pro Line Race Engines. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. And better gas mileage. what to expect with different lobe centers | Chevy Nova Forum "When the low-pressure wave in the exhaust reflects into the intake, the pressure delta actually helps pull air and fuel into the cylinder. That lopey idle that is universally loved, and part of the allure of a tight LSA cam, is actually misfire caused from a combination of exhaust dilution in the intake manifold and poor cylinder filling at idle. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Disclaimer: Remember to always consult with an expert first before trying anything at home. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. 03 The 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods were combined with a set of forged asymmetrical pistons from JE. We even treated them to some chamber work before installation. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. by mrsmythe Mon May 12, 2003 11:15 am, Post I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. JavaScript is disabled. Making this the biggest obstacle to overcome when selecting a cam profile with one of our tech advisors, explaining the definition and importance of the Lobe Center. A wide LSA reduces valve overlap, softens the idle and improves overall drivabilityespecially on the street where performance engines benefit from 112 to 114 LSA. General topics - 76 LA built, CA car with m20. I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. LSA is a way of summing up the relative timing of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) to the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) in relation to each other, and it's a great approximation of how the engine will operate. Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by, http://www.webcamshafts.com/cam_glossary.html, http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter haft/3.htm, Webcam 86A 108LC w/1.5 vs 86B 112LC w/1.3s. Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? Methods: We evaluated 30 individuals with PD (62.47.2 years) and 22 age-matched healthy controls (61.06.4 years). The stock valvesprings supplied with the CNC LS3 heads were swapped out in favor of a set of dual springs from Brian Tooley Racing. 07 Though the CNC-ported heads offered plenty of flow, it was necessary to upgrade the supplied valvesprings. A narrow, more specific power band is also a product of a narrow LSA, as is a lumpy idle qualityoften referred to as the 106 sound. 110 LSA: But, contrarily, at 110 LSA, you dont have to face the problem of engine knocking. The piston and cylinder damage possibility is pretty low at 110 LSA. any input is appreciated guys, thanks. Many later model engines use wide lobe separation angles to reduce overlap for idle quality and fuel economy. The engine would idle a lot rougher and generate worse exhaust emissions largely because of unburned fuel.. Is There a Sequence? I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. 106 LSA: You can see an increasing EGR effect at 106 LSA. by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. You are using an out of date browser. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. by flat4racer17 Tue May 13, 2003 9:12 pm, Post The world of fuel injection is where wide LSA cams like the 113 really shine. Tight LSA cams make excellent low-end torque and have a beautiful power curve. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Hopefully It will do fine in my 2276 mostly drag bug. Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110? The first cam featured a wide 120-degree LSA, while cam number two narrowed the angle to 112 degrees. If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. All three terms are similar, as they all relate to the relationship between the centerline of the Intake lobe and the centerline of the Exhaust lobe. To reiterate another point, I realize that wider LSAs tend to broaden the power band, but for a car I would like to bracket race a bit, as well as enjoy on the street, I was told that a narrower LSA will help the car accelerate at a faster rate. music to your ears? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. 112-110 Deg. This process slows down the reaction rates of the air-fuel mixture, causing temperatures to drop and preventing the engine from overheating. On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. If that accessory still does not assist the cam in producing enough vacuum, then as a last resort you can use a vacuum pump. 112 will have a smoother idle, a wider power band, and will work better with fuel injection. Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. What do you think of this cam choice? | Chevy Nova Forum or just enough to keep the neighbors pissed? If you shift at 7500-7800 add 4-6 degrees to both intake and exhaust and spread the lobe separation to 108-110. Come join the discussion about restoration, modifications, NOS parts, troubleshooting, VIN codes, and more! Builds More High-RPM Power Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA) Tighten (smaller LSA number) Moves Torque to Lower RPM Increases Maximum Torque Narrow Power band Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure Increase Chance of Engine Knock Increase Cranking Compression 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. #2---Choosing a Cam - Hughes Engines in some cases,, the average torque can equal out. Tests 2 and 3 meant dissecting the motor on the dyno to get the old cam out. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. Because the lobes are closer together on the 101 LSA cam, the intake closing point is advanced (closes earlier) and the piston has more time to build compressionexactly what the gauge showed. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. Camshaft Lobe Seperation | Team Chevelle by ANT Mon May 12, 2003 1:47 pm, Post A cam in the 110112 LSA range provides the necessary idle lobe to appease gearhead ears with acceptable manifold vacuum to run vacuum-operated accessories. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. I would have to say that your cam choice sounds like a winner to me. The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. 04 Minor modifications to the factory windage tray were necessary to work with the new stroker assembly. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. The reduced rate of the EGR effect lowers oxygen circulation in the engines combustion chamber. You must log in or register to reply here. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. Maybe even 114. The lower the lobe seperation,, ie. So, you can enjoy a mighty acceleration power at 110 LSA. It depends on the combination of engine size, head flow and head flow balance, as well as a big one, exhaust flow capabilities. Aluminum flywheel & pullies. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. Contributions la connaissance de la flore du Maroc et de l'Afrique du 114 vs 110 lobe sep. on cam | NastyZ28.com Your email address will not be published. 554"/577" lift. CAMSHAFT guys, explain lobe centers to me | The H.A.M.B. pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. The only reason I . Lower cylinder pressure is advantageous for your engine. whats the difference in how the car will run. (You can find an instructional video of how to do just that on our Clay Smith Cams YouTube Channel;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s ).

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