sig rattler vs springfield saint

To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. Meet the all-new Taurus Judge Executive Grade, a revolver featuring a hand-polished satin finish, presentation-grade wood grips, a brass rod front sight and an exceptional hand-tuned trigger. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. I really appreciate the input. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Now I have Seven Springfield guns with Five Saint Victors . I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. It's an entry level rifle that's pretty much designed to sell accessories. MSRP: $700; palmettostatearmory.com, Good advice on the 300 blk pistols Anybody not owning a 300 blk should consider getting one Im 66 years young, big fan of 270,300 magnum but this 300 blk up to 150 yards is great . Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. (CA Compliant). We think mounting accessories in the arc between the top rail and the sides shows a lot of promise for easy control. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. I'm looking for advice on whether to buy a Sig Sauer MCX or the Springfield Armory Saint (new free float version). So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Caliber + 300 BLK; 5.56 NATO; 7.62x39 . The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. Cookie Notice Matte Black. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. Save my name and email to use for future comments. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. Looks pretty sweet . Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. The Judge has been promoted! Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. But the safety and the magazine release were ambidextrous. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Despite the unique internals, the MCXs controls are similar to a standard ARs, which helps because most shooters are familiar with the latters manual of arms. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Keep Reading. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Lets see if our money was well spent. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. It started expanding at about 6 inches and fragmented at 15, leaving just the lead core and base at 26 inches. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. The bottom line? The only complaint is the 300 Blackouts A2 flash hider. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? The "Tread yellow marking" is just an mlok insert, mine didn't even come with one, but you can easily remove it. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. That said, most of the 6.75" barrels shoot supers unsuppressed just fine. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. I would go with the sig. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. All Rights Reserved. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. New Springfield Saint. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. Some big news for trigger pullers recently from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. Also visible with the top end hinged away was the Accu-Tite tension system consisting of a synthetic non-marring screw that mated flush beneath the bottom of the connecting lug. Actually, there is little here that would put off the sophisticated shooter as well. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. Maybe they will give me some clarity. Privacy Policy. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. Visually, this made them less obvious. What is it? Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. I got it for around 900 dollars a little over a year ago. I cant understand that. So these two were on my list . In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. The visual theme of the Saint was that it looks to be one piece instead of an upper and lower, or as some say, it looks monolithic. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . View Product. I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. Awesome pistol by the way. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. So after that day it was on my dream list . Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. At the range, my first order of business was zeroing the Rattler and shooting five-shot groups with it at 50 yards using loads from Barnes, Hornady, Lehigh Defense and Sig. .224 Valkyrie Small Precision Rifle Cartridge: Everything You Need to Know, Buyer Beware: Buying 'Bargain' Guns Can Be Risky. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Please keep us posted. The top rail was not really functional as a connection point, but it provided venting. Provided for advice, just in case you talk yourself into buying one. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. | *Bullet weight measured in grains, velocity in fps by chronograph and accuracy in inches for best 5-shot groups at 50 yards. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . In use, it seemed to all but disappear. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. The gun is boringly reliable and is sized to be a near-constant companionat least anywhere youll tote a rucksack. Jones .300 Whisper wildcat cartridge and developed the SAAMI-standardized 300 Blackout. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. But thats not really new, either. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Gun Tests has been independently reviewing firearms since 1989. Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter.

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